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Jakkal's Ramblings

The Equal Opportunity Offender


September 13th, 2015

My tweets @ 08:01 am

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  • Sat, 17:42: Drove Trucky around a bit today. It's making a tapping/knocking sound when it starts, but after I go a bit, it stops. No idea what's wrong
  • Sat, 19:36: RT @SenSanders: I fear that many of my Republican colleagues do not understand that war must be a last resort, not the first resort. http:/…
 
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From:makovette
Date:September 13th, 2015 09:23 pm (UTC)
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Drat on the code it's throwing. Likely a mis-fire on one or more cylinders given what you described. This time it's going back to the shop I'm afraid.

Interwebs troubleshooting isn't going to be practical. I believe the state will grant extensions on the SES issue if you pay the man the full bill up front, best to research that now. they want the $$$ more than anything else really.

Mako
[User Picture Icon]
From:jakkal
Date:September 13th, 2015 10:02 pm (UTC)
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Yeah, I fired off an email to the DMV to see if they'll let me pay the taxes without the vehicle getting inspected. They used to give you a 30 day extension if it failed inspection, not sure if that's still a thing with the new tax 'n' tag system.
[User Picture Icon]
From:makovette
Date:September 14th, 2015 02:11 am (UTC)
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Yeah hopefully someone will follow up, My North Carolina DMV experiences were pretty positive over all back when I was out there.

A bit frustrating to have cured the basic issues to have this one pop back up on the radar. the shop may want to replace the distributor, or what ever passes for one on that engine. I'm unsure what the whole ignition system is on that engine, but certainly that's the focus of the initial troubleshooting.

Post as things develop, I'm certainly interested in learning more about the findings, expensive though they may be.

Mako
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From:jakkal
Date:September 14th, 2015 02:17 am (UTC)
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Well when they did the work last month, it was the Distributor, Rotor, Wires and plugs that they replaced. So the whole shebang was fixed.

I was doing a little research on the issue though, and people said this was common in the 4.3L V6, and they had the exact same symptoms I did. And they said that even after doing the whole tuneup they were having the exact symptoms I had today.

They said two things were replaced the fixed it: EGR valve and some kind of gasket related to it. Another said that replacing a Throttle sensor fixed it.

I'm kinda hoping that's it.
[User Picture Icon]
From:makovette
Date:September 14th, 2015 06:20 am (UTC)
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forgot about the dizzy :)

Ok EGR is cheap as dirt and a DIY item after 5 minutes of Youtube video. suggest you take a swing at this one on your own.

Throttle sensor is super easy to do as well, but it's best done by someone who has done it before.

Mako
[User Picture Icon]
From:jakkal
Date:September 14th, 2015 04:52 pm (UTC)
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I see on the diagrams that it's right in front of the engine. What tools would I need for it? (I don't have any).
[User Picture Icon]
From:makovette
Date:September 14th, 2015 05:27 pm (UTC)
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A basic tool kit with screwdrivers, pliers, combination wrenches, ratchet and sockets Will cover most requirements.

Most kits come with both U.S. and metric spec tools. That era GM vehicle used inch spec fittings on the engine and metric on the rest of the vehicle. My 95 Camero was like that. The engines were built in the US, then sent up to Canada for install into the chassis.

You do not need to spend a fortune on tools. Harbor Freight and Wallmart sell mechanics tool sets in a nice purpose made case.

The exact tools needed for the job are the tools that fit. :-)

Sorry for the smart ass answer however there is no way for me to know specifically without first looking at the engine.

Please forgive typos and brain farts, I am on my cell phone.
[User Picture Icon]
From:jakkal
Date:September 14th, 2015 05:34 pm (UTC)
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Haha, it's okay. I didn't know if that part needed a special tool, I know some of the things on there need tools you have to borrow from the auto parts stores.
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From:jakkal
Date:September 18th, 2015 07:13 pm (UTC)
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Well I just got word back from the shop. They said it has bad lifters, and it's an internal engine problem that will cost $1200-1600 to fix.
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From:makovette
Date:September 18th, 2015 08:16 pm (UTC)
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Hold on this. Please research if your engine uses "roller lifters"

Too busy @ work for a proper reply at this time...

Mako
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From:jakkal
Date:September 19th, 2015 02:32 am (UTC)
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I can't seem to find out this info. It's a 4.3L V6. I'll keep looking.
[User Picture Icon]
From:makovette
Date:September 19th, 2015 03:58 am (UTC)
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So...

First what you need to know:

Watch this for 20 seconds first :) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N2y77vEKorI&feature=youtu.be&t=70

Lifters are the bit that "ride" the bumps on the cam shaft. As the cam shaft rotates, a bump on the cam pushes up on the lifter. The lifter then pushes on a cleverly named part called a Push Rod. The push rod pushes on a Rocker. The rocker pivots like a see-saw and pushes on the intake valve, opening it to let fuel+air into the cylinder through the intake port of the cylinder head.

Another bump on the cam runs the exhaust valve through another lifter + pushrod + rocker chain just like in the video. Repeat for all 6/8/12 cylinders.

Valves are closed by a valve spring when the bump on the cam shaft rotates out from under the lifter.

The cam is the master mechanical timing heart of your engine. It runs the entire valve train, controlling when the intake and exhaust valves open and close.

You 99% likely have hydraulic roller lifters. They are hugely bullet proof as they have a roller that rides the bump on the cam shaft and are constantly bathed in oil. I'm pretty sure you 'n Bow have never once run crap oil and filters on the truck nor have you put a hot cam in it.

Occurs to me I've likely gone deep motorhead geek on you. I created this page back in the day when working on my Z28. You're interested in the LT1 Hydraulic lifter here:

http://www.caspeed.com/gallery11/index.htm

Notice the roller that rolls along the cam shaft at the bottom of the lifter.

It would be useful to know what cylinder is throwing the code. It's possible one lifer is having a bad day, but surely not all 12. One of the things putting the Sea Foam in the oil helps with is to dissolve any crud inside the lifter bodies and ball check valve in the lifter.

The reason lifters are so $$$ is you have to pull off the intake manifold first and replace the gaskets. To get that off there's a ton vacuum hoses and other small fiddly bits.

Now what to do:

Ask the shop how much to re-set the valve lash. This should be 1 hour of labor, including the pit stops to get rid of the three cans of Mt. Dew you chugged cuz it's so blazing hot.

It's possible a valve spring has broken. Did they check for that? Here's what that looks like:

http://www.caspeed.com/lj06/dagnabbit.html - scroll down to the bottom image.

I speak from an excessive amount of experience here :P

Mako


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From:jakkal
Date:September 19th, 2015 04:03 am (UTC)
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It was cylinder 3 according to the code.

Here's the thing though, if the lifter or valves are bad, wouldn't it have a lack of power? that truck MOVED when I was taking it up to the shop (I had to get out of the way of oncoming Raleigh traffic). There's no power loss at all.

And after you drive it for a bit, the noise goes away.

Someone suggested I put some thicker oil in it and see if that makes the noise go away.
[User Picture Icon]
From:makovette
Date:September 19th, 2015 04:58 am (UTC)
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I don't think it's a bad lifter per se. I suspect valve lash is too loose, or a long shot on a bent push rod.

Thicker oil can be a band-aid yes.

There's lots of potions and stuff you can add to oil to thicken it up or run a 10w-40. I lean towards this one: http://www.walmart.com/ip/Lucas-Oil-Heavy-Duty-Oil-Stabilizer-1-qt/16777811 . Every motorhead has their potion of preference.

The fact the noise is happening only when cold, when the oil is at it's thickest, may mean the thicker oil idea may not work, this is hard to predict.

I do recommend you have a good 200-300 miles with the Seafoam in there before doing any oil or additives. Grab the woofs and hit the road :)

If no fix, try an oil change with Mobil 1 High Mileage 10W-40 by itself. If still no fix after 50 miles or so, add the Lucas.

If stilll no fix, have the shop do a valve lash job, checking the push rods for straightness and the valve tips for wear as below. This is a gamble of $ to cover shop time.

The valve tip check and push rod check is like 2 minutes of time over just a adjusting valve lash. You loosen the rocker on the rocker stud enough to rotate off the valve tip and pull out the pushrod, then roll the pushrod like a pool queue on a flat surface - I used a piece of glass. It's super obvious if the pushrod is bent.

If stillll no fix, then the intake manifold has to come off and one or more lifters replaced. I would love to get the old lifters back, take them apart and see what happened.

If there's high wear on the rollers, that means the cam lobes are also likely worn. This would make me a sad motorhead as replacing the cam before bolting it all back together is advisable, but that's going to add $$$ to the job.

I'm just a bundle of happy joy in the news department tonight aren't I?

Bon Chance!

Mako




Edited at 2015-09-19 05:00 am (UTC)

Jakkal's Ramblings

The Equal Opportunity Offender